Vicente Todolí and Fiammetta Griccioli Interview September 2020

Interview

Vicente Todolí and Fiammetta Griccioli interviewed by Barbara Clausen, September 3, 2020

Vicente Todolí is the Artistic Director and Fiammetta Griccioli is the Curator of the Pirelli HangarBicocca in Milan. This interview focuses on Joan Jonas’s exhibition, Joan Jonas: Light Time Tales, which was on view in Milan from October 2014 to February 2015 and subsequently traveled to Malmö Konsthall in Sweden.

Transcript

• “Vicente Todolí and Fiammetta Griccioli interviewed by Barbara Clausen, September 3, 2020 (Interview Transcript).” Joan Jonas Knowledge Base, Artist Archives Initiative, 2021.

Abstract

The interview begins with Todolí speaking about his relationship with Jonas and how he got to know her [00:00–03:03]. He then discusses how the idea to invite her for an exhibition in Milan originally came about, the initial process of putting the show together, and how Jonas built a model to help her imagine an intimate experience of her works in the space without walls [03:06–11:00]. Next, Todolí and Griccioli describe the space of the Reanimation installation and performance, which was located at the beginning and end of the exhibition [11:01–13:31]. Moving on, Todolí speaks about the effect this exhibition had on future programming and how it was important for thinking about how performative elements are integrated [13:32–16:14]. The two also take a moment to think about how the audience reacted to Jonas’s exhibition and if they seemed familiar, since she has presented her work often in Italy before. They observe that the most interesting reaction they received was from people who wondered if Jonas was a young artist [16:15–21:01]. The interview then focuses on the research of the exhibition and the process of choosing the works. Since exhibitions at Pirelli HangarBicocca are specifically made for that space, Todolí notes that a script is made to determine whether everything works in the space before they even approach the artist [21:02–24:58]. Switching gears, Todolí then shares a bit about his team and offers some advice for curators who would want to show Jonas’s work in the future [24:59–27:09]. 

The interview continues with Griccioli describing her role in the installation process as assistant curator. She explains what it was like to work with Jonas and the curator, Andrea Lissoni, and recalls her experiences of traveling to see some of Jonas’s works in Sweden as they were developing the exhibition. Griccioli also touches upon Jonas’s 1994 show at the Stedelijk Museum and how that served a source of reference because it was a moment in which Jonas translated performance to installation [27:23–31:03]. Next, Griccioli speaks about how conservation issues were dealt with since the space is a big hall and some of the pieces were loans from other institutions. She relays that they worked with Iolanda Ratti, a former Time-based Media Conservator at Tate in London, to understand the challenges of mounting this show [31:04–38:06]. At this point Griccioli discusses how they worked with sound and technology in the space in collaboration with the German company Eidotech, describing how even though there was a lot of planning beforehand, there was still a need to be flexible [38:08–42:56]. Circling back to audience engagement, Griccioli talks about the ambitious programming they had throughout the exhibition, including Jonas performing Reanimation and a lecture by art historian Giovanna Zapperi about understandings of the feminine in Jonas’s work [42:57–47:18]. The curator then describes how the show went to Malmö and the differences between the two spaces [47:20–49:09]. The interview ends with Griccioli giving advice for curators who want to specifically approach Jonas’s work [49:31–51:55].